Basic Med and the Cherokee Six and Lance aircraft

Basic Med and the Cherokee Six and Lance aircraft

After reading the new rule for Basic Med, it has become apparent that the Cherokee Six and the Lance models do not qualify to be flown by a pilot holding only a Basic Med authorization.  The Type Certificate allows for a seating of 7, even though I have never seen that configuration in real life, it is authorized therefore not eligible under Basic Med rules.
The AOPA lawyers seem to think that the only way to get these airplanes covered is to do a STC or ATC to permanently limit the aircraft seating in these aircraft (even though six is all that is installed in many).

I have posed the question to Piper and am awaiting their answer.  If they decline to do an STC, then I would hope an organization would sponsor developing  an STC to avoid individual operators from having to do their own.  Each operator paying a DER to develop an STC would certainly be a deterrent to bothering with Basic Med. 
What are others thoughts on this wrinkle in the rule?

Doug Lesh
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Re: Basic Med and the Cherokee Six and Lance aircraft

Only ONE STC is needed (1 for Lance, 1 for Six, but really it should only be 1 for both in my book). EAA might be interested in being the holder.

My thinking is, since the optional seat does not change the W/B values, it should not be difficult to do an STC. Field approval should be simple. The STC should follow as fast as the FAA can rubber stamp it.

stevet@copper.net
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Re: Basic Med and the Cherokee Six and Lance aircraft

RE: Basic Med and the Cherokee Six and Lance Aircraft
Doug,
I have also spoken to the AOPA lawyers and have received the same response in that an STC or ATC is needed. I have been a Cherokee 6 owner for 35 years and have never had the 7th (jump) seat installed. As many others, I have been following the 3rd Class Medical reform for a few years and thought that the new BasicMed would be of value to me. However at this time, it seems to be a stumbling block for a Cherokee 6 and Lance to comply with the 6 occupant requirement. In my opinion, this seems to be a relatively minor issue in that the PIC can ensure that there are no more than 5 passengers in the plane, especially if the plane only has 6 total seats installed.

I have spoken with my aircraft mechanic, and he suggested that Form FAA 337, Major Repair & Alteration, may be a possible option. Using FAA 337, the aircraft could be altered by removing the jump seat (if installed), seat attachments, and 7th seat belt which, in my opinion, would satisfy the 6 occupant requirement. I am not aware of any legal issues, but I am soliciting comments or remarks from others on the merits of a possible 337 alternative.

Hopefully, Piper (per Doug action) or another organization will do an STC if that is the only option.

Bob Joseph

PEGBOBJOSEPH@YAHOO.COM
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Re: Basic Med and the Cherokee Six and Lance aircraft

Interesting thoughts on how to apply a fix for this.   Keep in mind, it's the Cherokee 6 series and the Seneca, which uses the identical fuselage and was also marketed as seating 7.  Any chance the AOPA can convince the authors of BasicMed to include our airplanes since they clearly never carry more than 6?  I've never seen one with more than 6 seats - including a 7th was clearly a marketing stunt done by Piper in the 70's.  This year, I can't do basic med and have my fingers crossed that my special issuance will be extended again.

jwjeans
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Re: Basic Med and the Cherokee Six and Lance aircraft

I've been thinking about your message the last day or so as I own a Seneca.  Even though my airplane has five seats it's still certificated for 7 seats, unfortunately.  I don't think the AOPA is going to try and convince anybody of anything at this point as the bill has been signed into law.  A change to the bill would require an act of congress and a presidential signature.  If we could amend the type certificate to limit these airplanes to six seats we'd be in business.  That would be a big expense and who's going to pay the bill?  My guess is that Piper will turn their back on it as will EAA and AOPA.  There are just too few of our airplanes to warrant the cost, unfortunately.  Do you know any rich benefactors?

Scott Sherer
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Re: Basic Med and the Cherokee Six and Lance aircraft

3/24/2017

One solution may be in the FAA's Type Data Certification Sheet A3SO for PA-32.  My PA-32RT-300T is on pages 10-11 of 31 pages.  Page 11 shows this airplane is certified for 7 OR 6 seats as follows:

Number of Seats:
7 (2 at +85.3, 3 at +118.1, 2 at +157.6)
6 (2 at +85.5, *2 at 119.1, 2 at +157.6)
* - Optional Club Seats

I have the Club Seats option.  I went to my POH Section 6.9 "Weight and Balance Determination For Flight" on page 6-10 and verified the Arm Aft Datum (inches) for my airplane matched the 6 seat datum numbers in the Type Certification Data Sheet.  It appears my airplane with the Club Seat Option is only certified for 6 seats.  At least, this would be my argument to qualify for Basic Med.  I put a copy of this Type Data Certification Sheet in Section 6 of the POH.

I found the Type Data Certification Data Sheet as follows:
1.  Go to faa.gov.
2.  In the search box type in:  FAA-CT-8080-8D
3.  Search result:  "Computer Testing Supplement for Inspection Authorization (PDF)"
4.  Scroll down.  My airplane is at page 645-646/675 of this PDF.  (Note:  it is page 10-11/31 of Type Certification Data Sheet A3SO).

I look forward to comments about this approach to the 6 seat limitation in the Basic Med rules.  Lawyers my still say an STC is the best option.

rickorr@earthlink.net
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