Jim, the eddy current technician confirmed your suspicions, the inspection did reveal 2 cracks. She’s rewriting her report to reflect that. Still no response from my email to Piper. I’ll give them few more days then I’ll have to really start pestering them to see what solutions they’ve considered besides the obvious wing overhaul. The price for the spar alone is $7500. So that explains the $10,500 estimate. My guess is I’ll have $15-20k in one wing after labor to R&R the wing and shipping to send it both ways. The hard part is if one wing has a crack, how long before the next one develops one. The math is starting to look bad. $30k for replacement spars, $30k for an overhaul, what’s the plane worth after that? $60-70k maybe? Might be worth more as parts.
@spikecarter I feel your pain. I have a Turbo Arrow that needs a cam shaft replacement just 3 years after replacing the original cam (so twice in 3 years). Continental have jacked up their prices, so I'm getting quotes of $30,000+ including R&R to replace the cam. This plane had a gear-up in the '90s so I'm a little suspicious of the wing spars even though TTAF is low and has no training history. I'm now trying to figure out what to do.
I've already put $40,000 into non-upgrade repairs into this air-frame. Between the wings and the engine I'm looking at another $80,000 over the next few years. Total bull****. No way I'm spending that kind of money; it's a glorified Cherokee, not a Beech 18. Never mind the $50,000 in avionics this thing badly needs.
Coupled with the current market volatility, I think my flying days are numbered.
@spikecarter, sorry I know this is madding. I have an Arrow IV that I put a new engine/prop in and new paint and interior all over the last 6months.. and was going all glass last week till this happened so I stopped to get the bolt inspection done.. My plane has 5300TT and the last 1500 were in a school so I didn't want to take any chances or put more money into it without checking.
Anyway, pulled the bolts outs with my AP over the weekend and got the inspection done this morning.. Thankfully, it passed with no issues. I paid around $400 for the inspection and it took an hour. @hhedeshian - I would suggest before spending anymore money on her get the inspection done to have piece of mind and know where you stand..
I have received and reviewed the data provided for the crack/scratch indication on PA-28-181, SN 28-8190269. Based upon the data provided, and preliminary analysis completed, I believe the installation is repairable via a 1st oversize (1/64) ream, re-inspection of the bolt bore to verify removal of the indication, and installation of an oversized ‘X’ bolt. However, as this aircraft is the subject of a proposed Airworthiness Directive (Docket. No. FAA-2018-1046), Piper as the type-design holder cannot issue a repair to the area in question without review and concurrence from the FAA Atlanta Aircraft Certification Office (ACO).
If you would like to pursue a repair to the lower LH forward bolt hole, please let me know and I prepare an engineering quotation and proposal for obtaining approved engineering data and concurrence from the ACO.
If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me directly either by email or via telephone.
end:
So if I read this right, I can pay Piper to engineer a proposal to get approval from the FAA to oversize the hole for my plane? Does everyone in my position have to pay Piper to do this, or do they do it once and apply that to all of the victim planes.
@jlahofer
Is this the procedure that you mentioned as a solution that one of your customers was planning to do?
My write-up did not state a scratch, but this does sound somewhat similar. Also, a 1/64” oversize is approx 0.015”. In order to ream out the equivalent of the reference notch (0.030”), the over size would need to be at least 0.060” oversize (0.030” on each side). The indication we found was similar to the reference notch. It could be that what was reported by Piper, was from a different inspection with a smaller crack indication. That may be why there is such a small (1/64”) oversize.
Yeah I don't see how a 1/64" oversize in diameter is going to contain much of a crack. Unless, they're talking about drilling the next standard size which would be 7/16" diameter and reaming that hole 1/64". Maybe, probably not though.
Hi Scott. I did find the number, but Mark is no longer there. The new NDT guy is Shane Muller. That’s Shane.muller@signatureflight.com. I’ll have pricing and availability tomorrow.
Comments
Does anyone know what the anticipated/realistic cost of compliance with the SB is?
@spikecarter I feel your pain. I have a Turbo Arrow that needs a cam shaft replacement just 3 years after replacing the original cam (so twice in 3 years). Continental have jacked up their prices, so I'm getting quotes of $30,000+ including R&R to replace the cam. This plane had a gear-up in the '90s so I'm a little suspicious of the wing spars even though TTAF is low and has no training history. I'm now trying to figure out what to do.
I've already put $40,000 into non-upgrade repairs into this air-frame. Between the wings and the engine I'm looking at another $80,000 over the next few years. Total bull****. No way I'm spending that kind of money; it's a glorified Cherokee, not a Beech 18. Never mind the $50,000 in avionics this thing badly needs.
Coupled with the current market volatility, I think my flying days are numbered.
I'm very sorry to hear your story. I wish I had a magic wand to wave and fix your problem. What's it worth parting out?
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.
Need help? Let me know!
@spikecarter, sorry I know this is madding. I have an Arrow IV that I put a new engine/prop in and new paint and interior all over the last 6months.. and was going all glass last week till this happened so I stopped to get the bolt inspection done.. My plane has 5300TT and the last 1500 were in a school so I didn't want to take any chances or put more money into it without checking.
Anyway, pulled the bolts outs with my AP over the weekend and got the inspection done this morning.. Thankfully, it passed with no issues. I paid around $400 for the inspection and it took an hour.
@hhedeshian - I would suggest before spending anymore money on her get the inspection done to have piece of mind and know where you stand..
Here's what I got back from Piper:
I have received and reviewed the data provided for the crack/scratch indication on PA-28-181, SN 28-8190269. Based upon the data provided, and preliminary analysis completed, I believe the installation is repairable via a 1st oversize (1/64) ream, re-inspection of the bolt bore to verify removal of the indication, and installation of an oversized ‘X’ bolt. However, as this aircraft is the subject of a proposed Airworthiness Directive (Docket. No. FAA-2018-1046), Piper as the type-design holder cannot issue a repair to the area in question without review and concurrence from the FAA Atlanta Aircraft Certification Office (ACO).
If you would like to pursue a repair to the lower LH forward bolt hole, please let me know and I prepare an engineering quotation and proposal for obtaining approved engineering data and concurrence from the ACO.
If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me directly either by email or via telephone.
end:
So if I read this right, I can pay Piper to engineer a proposal to get approval from the FAA to oversize the hole for my plane? Does everyone in my position have to pay Piper to do this, or do they do it once and apply that to all of the victim planes.
@jlahofer
Is this the procedure that you mentioned as a solution that one of your customers was planning to do?
mc
Yeah I don't see how a 1/64" oversize in diameter is going to contain much of a crack. Unless, they're talking about drilling the next standard size which would be 7/16" diameter and reaming that hole 1/64". Maybe, probably not though.
Thanks for the update. Please continue to let us know how you're doing.
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.
Need help? Let me know!
Jim Hofer
Aerohoff NDT
C 760-567-4123
We are in San Diego county, but we travel back east and even outside the US.
Thanks so much for the update.
Scott Sherer
Wright Brothers Master Pilot, FAA Commercial Pilot
Aviation Director, Piper Owner Society Forum Moderator and Pipers Author.
Need help? Let me know!